Monday, 20 May 2013
Life, the universe, pies, hot-pink bunnies, world domination, and everything
By popular request (well, Piggy’s request, and he’s certainly popular), here’s a new edition of the thread for practicing foreign and/or archaic forms of communication.
The 2012 thread included some possibly useful letters decorated with diacritical marks.
The original Coy Woodnesse thread, launched in 2005, explains the name, sort of.
Date: January 1, 2013
Categories: The Universe, Things We like
Miré el título y se preguntó qué era. A continuación, hace clic en el enlace.
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Mal echt Leute, warum lernt hier irgendwie niemand Deutsch?
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Yo no hablo la lengua alemana, y esto es un problema porque yo quiero leer articulos de noticias sobre tu compatriota estratosférico que estan en la lengua alemana. Quisiera pedirte traducciones, pero yo pienso sería descortes, porque yo no tengo manera de dar gracias apropriadas en este formato electronico.
(Hopefully that sounded *menos descortes en español*…)
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For people who don’t have a Cyrillic keyboard, but know Russian, here is the Cyrillic alphabet for your copypasting pleasure:
А Б В Г Ґ Д Ђ Ѓ Е Ё Є Ж З З́ Ѕ И І Ї Й Ј К Л Љ М Н Њ О П Р С С́ Т Ћ Ќ У Ў Ф Х Ц Ч Џ Ш Щ Ъ Ы Ь Э Ю Я
(Wikipedia said that these ones were non-Slavic, but just in case, I’m putting them in anyway, just in case.)
Ӏ Ә Ғ Ҙ Ҫ Ҡ Қ Ң Ө Ү Ұ Һ
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Ooh, do you speak Russian? I have been wanting to learn; I love the way it sounds in songs.
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Nope, unfortunately. When I saw the new thread, I remembered what a pain it was to copypaste Hebrew letters from other sites, so I decided to help out others whose spoken languages don’t use Roman characters.
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It is a pain! I don’t know how to do this on a Mac, but on a PC, you can go to Control Panel>Regional and Language Options, and click “Details” under the “Languages” tab, and then select “Add” to install another language keyboard- there are quite a lot, including Russian and Hebrew. You can switch between keyboards you’ve installed by clicking a button in the taskbar. (These instructions are for XP, but I imagine it’s similar in later versions.)
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No puedo creer el progreso que he visto en mi español este semestre. Mi pronunciación ha cambiado totalmente, y creo que fue escuchar a uno de mis profesores que lo influyó tanto. Pero también es que leer y escuchar y hablar me sienten más naturales, más–bueno, más fáciles. Muchas veces me doy cuenta de que estoy pensando en español, y más que una vez no sabía cómo decir algo en inglés que podía decir muy claramente en español. Pero creo que yo cambiare mi “major” de español a un “minor” porque si hago esto, debo poder graduarme al fin del próximo año. Y si hago esto, la clase que voy a tomar este semestre será la última que voy a tomar aquí, a menos que tenga unas horas libres. Es una decisión muy difícil para mí ahorita…no sé qué sería lo mejor.
Pues. Si estás estudiando español, debes mirar My Little Pony en español; hay unos canales en ese web de compartir videos que tienen los dubs mexicanos. La voz mexicana de Rarity es fantástica, como una actriz de telenovelas.
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I have a lot of mild crushes on languages right now, and I have way too many that I want to learn; I think I want to study modern languages in college.
I’m taking Spanish in school right now. It’s an incredibly practical language, so I’m glad I’m learning it, but our classes are so boring… Spanish is known to be the easiest language our school offers, and the classes are aimed at the students who are just taking a few years of it because they need language credits. I literally spent the last few weeks of the semester working on my Chinese flashcards in Spanish. Is there a way to make it more interesting?
I really want to learn French, too; I might be able to get into an exchange program to France if I do, since we hosted a French student this summer. Unfortunately, I don’t have any free spots in my schedule at school, and won’t for a while, and I seem to have developed a sort of mental block about French. Despite its similarities to Spanish, or maybe because of them, I can’t remember any French I teach myself.
I want to be fluent in both Arabic and Hebrew, but I found Arabic really difficult to learn- more difficult than Chinese, actually. Hebrew is easier for me, though I don’t have as many chances to practice it, so I suppose I’ll work on that now and take Arabic in college.
My progress in Chinese has kind of stagnated a while, since I’ve been busy, but I’m trying to set a habit of learning a few words a day.
So, if anyone has any tips for learning the above languages, or would be willing to practice them with me, that’d be great. I definitely need to improve my written Spanish and Hebrew.
And there are all these languages that I really would like to know- I want to learn Hindi in college, too, and maybe Russian (really, I’d like to just learn the most useful languages I can, in order to travel places. I know that most people in France and Israel can speak English, which makes those two languages kind of hobbies). It’d be cool to speak some amount of Telugu, the language my Indian family speaks, so I could understand what they were talking about- my only words of Telugu are those for “what, dear?” and “eat, dear.”
Mm, and Persian. Mostly because I think Farsi and Arabic scripts are really pretty. And Greek, maybe?
Does anyone know of a university with a really wide-ranging linguistics department?
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Don’t forget that taking classes will never make you fluent in any language. What you do on your own, informally, outside of textbooks and exams, is what matters the most when learning any language.
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I agree! Intensive study is best — preferably immersion. In my experience, studying a language in a classroom with dozens of other people is pretty much the worst way to learn it.
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My experience has led me to the same conclusion. The human brain has evolved to learn languages via immersion–trying to get the same results by rote memorization and textbooks is clearly not going to work, in my opinion. Add the standardization and impersonalization of the classroom setting into the mix and you’re looking at nothing but a headache factory.
でもね、俺は何も知らないよ。
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The human brain expects language acquisition to begin in infancy, however, and appears to have certain features early in life to ease the way that aren’t available later. So it could be that we need some supplemental techniques to compensate. Personally, I’m not much of a fan of rote learning either, but I’m not ready to dismiss it completely. (After all, I can still recite portions of French dialogues from when I was 11 years old—with the added understanding of the grammar lessons they were designed to teach.) The approach does seem to be more comfortable for some people than for others. It may also have more (or less) value depending on the stage of learning, one’s natural facilities, experience with previous language(s), and so forth.
tl;dr One size doesn’t fit all brains.
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Very true. I should’ve been clearer that I was criticizing relying solely on those techniques, as most people seem wont to do. I imagine Robert had the same intent. And you’re right, it absolutely depends on the circumstances. For learning dead languages like Latin or ancient Greek, languages that you’re dealing with solely in text and not in actual speech, memorizing the declensions and whatnot is the only way to get into it.
(I must confess that I shudder at the use of tl;dr’s here on MuseBlog, though I’ve probably used a few myself.)
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Sorry for the shudder. The usage was meant in a joking way.
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Depends on the class. Having a good teacher who can act as a guide is a great asset to have, though any good teacher will also emphasize the importance of outside resources. Immersion may be the ideal, but it’s not a viable option for most people. Whatever the method, practicing every day is the key, even if only small amounts, according to most of the research I’ve read.
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Some teachers use immersion in their classes, though, and some textbooks even make use of it: After telling you what they want you to learn (or sometimes even before), they’ll give you stories and so on (sometimes with pictures) using those words and/or grammatical concepts. Of course, you don’t really get to choose whether you get landed in a class like that all the time.
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Y a-t-il des moines français auprès de toi?
Talking to people is the only way for things to sink in as far as I’m concerned. I’m afraid I’ve forgotten where you live, but maybe if you’re near a large city, they’ll have a french embassy? The one here has a library as well and also organizes relatively cheap tutoring (French college exchange students who are happy to chat for an hour).
Also, I’ve finally found a Spanish accent to imitate. Yes, my Spanish is pretty awful, but at least it will be funny that way…
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Does your school system offer credit by exam? I like doing that with foreign language courses. I’ll study a language on my own time, making sure to learn what the curriculum requires, and then take a test, so if I pass, I’ll get credit and have more time for fun electives/higher level courses/in theory, graduating early, if I did this enough times, which I don’t plan to do, personally, but someone could. If your Spanish class is boring you, maybe you could do that so that you don’t have to continue with it and will still get credit.
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For Spanish, I suggest bringing in your own book and reading it during slow parts of the class. If you think your teacher would see that as disruptive or otherwise not okay, try talking to him/her yourself and seeing if there’s anything they would suggest. When I was bored in French, my teacher offered me several books that she had on hand. If you’re the kind of person that likes figuring things out on your own, a book slightly above your reading level combined with a good dictionary can be a very powerful tool for learning. I mean, reading is a large part of how I (and I suspect most MuseBloggers) learned English. When you are able to read something, you’ll feel really accomplished, too!
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I’d be happy to practice Hebrew with you. I’ve barely spoken any in the past four years, and would like to get my brain back into it.
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Thanks, everyone! I don’t think French immersion is really an option, but I could probably try Spanish immersion (at least temporarily, in Mexican supermarkets and so forth).
Bookgirl- I live sort-of-near San Francisco, and there is a French consulate there, I think! There’s also a French school. I’ll look into tutoring.
Biblio- Sadly, my district doesn’t offer credit by exam except for very specific classes (basic computer science and so forth), but I’m going to ask if I can take classes at the local community college this year and start in AP Spanish next year.
Meow- I did, actually! I got halfway through Pride and Prejudice in Spanish (Orgullo y Prejuicio) in class last semester. The class is so unruly that my teacher doesn’t notice, or doesn’t mind.
I found that when I was taking Mandarin classes, it was a lot easier to absorb the language outside of school- not by talking to people, but by reading and translating signs and advertisements.
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GoTra dntra Ble. Shm. 
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In Hebrew, the word for teenager is “תיפש עשרה”, which literally means “stupid-ten” (as in thir-ten, four-ten, etc.)
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That is fantastic. How is it pronounced?
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Whoops, it’s spelled טיפש עשרה. Although that doesn’t change the pronunciation, which is this: tēpāsh esrā
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Teepaysh essray? Which syllables are stressed?
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The second syllable is stressed in both words. 
Sorry I forgot to put that in.
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Hello! Does anyone here speak Italian?
I took it in school from seventh grade until tenth grade, and did pretty well, since the classes were very low level and I excel at rote memorization.
However!
Now that I’ve transferred to a state school, I am required to take a year of foreign language. Since my last Italian class was less than four years ago, I am permitted to start at the 102 course instead of the 101 course, which suits me mainly because the 101 course is full and I have yet to register for classes. Since my last Italian class was three and a half years ago, I don’t remember much Italian.
Is there anyone who wants to practice with me?
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so I went to register for classes yesterday
and was planning to take Italian 102
but I checked with the head of foreign language, just to see what she thought
and after hearing that I got a 100 on the Regents exam, even though it was three years ago, she was like, take 201, you’ll be fine, you can talk to the professor about it on the first day
so I’m tentatively excited? and hoping I haven’t forgotten everything about every verb tense that I used to know
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Groundhog-
!אדירה, תודה רבה
(!ברור, העברית שלי לא טובה. סליחה)
?ממש? את גרה בארץ קודם, נכון
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Anyone have advice on where to learn Chinese without being in school? What I want is a basic introduction, and somewhere to learn characters. Websites would do, as would books.
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I don’t know if you’ve heard of a website called memrise, they have some introductory Chinese ‘courses’. If you like, I could ask my mum if she knows of anything else (she teaches Mandarin).
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That would be great, thanks!
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Reading and Writing Chinese and Introductory Chinese are both really good resources (there may be several books by those titles; Reading and Writing is red and white, and Introductory Chinese is sort of dark blue). I don’t have them near me, or I’d look up the authors.
Podcasts are a really, really great way to go; since possibly the hardest thing about Chinese for a native English speaker is getting the tones right, I would say it’s really important to hear words pronounced correctly. Most of the free podcasts you’ll get if you search “learn Mandarin” on iTunes are really helpful.
In terms of memorizing characters, I’ve found stroke order really important for a number of reasons- if you’re having a conversation in Chinese and the other person thinks you might not understand, they sometimes draw the character in the air with their finger, and knowing the way it’s written helps a lot. Also, some Chinese dictionaries are organized by stroke.
I memorize characters better if I write them with a calligraphy set (probably just because calligraphy is fun, but it’s worth trying; all you need is a thin brush and some black ink or paint). Also, try writing them somewhere you’ll see every day, like on a large sheet of paper taped on your door.
Sel’s Mandarin is infinitely better than mine, but if you’re up for it, I’d love someone to practice my rudimentary Chinese with!
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oxlin: Why not just plunge in? You could
(1) do a Google search for “teach English in Taiwan”;
(2) find out which of the responses is most reputable; and
(3) go.
That would liven up your life a bit.
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Ooh, yeah, my mom did that after grad school! She taught in a university, and she says she doesn’t know how easy it is to get a job teaching English without being a professor or certified teacher, but there are apparently a lot of language academies/private schools who want native-speaking teachers!
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Of course, if you’re looking for real adventure, check out the Dutch startup that’s looking for people to colonize Mars starting in 2022. Two catches: (1) it will be a reality TV show, so you won’t have much privacy, and (2) you’ll have to stay on Mars, because they won’t bring you back. Google “Mars One” mission if you’re still interested. Martian Muse Academy, anyone?
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*falls off chair*
I am 98% sure that was a fake story on Wait Wait… Don’t Tell Me about a year ago…
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Maybe it was a fake fake story.
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Oh, no, I’ve heard of these guys before. They’re real, but whether or not they’ll get anywhere is another story…
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(The headmaster will be named Rumbleroar.)
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I WAS HOPING THIS JOKE WOULD BE HERE
I DID NOT EXPECT IT TO BE FROM YOU BUT IT’S EVEN BETTER THIS WAY
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My first-year Chinese class uses the Integrated Chinese textbook and character workbook, both of which are slim paperbacks (easy to carry around) and really nice to learn from.
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We’re using those too. I admittedly haven’t used them much this year because my teacher generally gives us handouts and such that she makes, but what I’ve seen of it is very helpful.
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–Choklit Orange
כן, גרתי שם במשך שנה. אבל אחרי זה, גרתי באמריקה, ולא היה לי מישהו לשוחח עם בעברית. וזה לא בעיה עם העברית שלך לא טובה. גם העברית שלי לא כל כך טובה…
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!אני מתרגשת כי הבנתי את כמעט כל זה
…את צריכה לבוא לקליפורניה, יש ישראלים רבים כאן, אז אני יכול להתאמן
בשבוע שעבר דברתי עמ מישהו בעברית, אבל ערבבתי את “משקפימ” עמ “מכנסיימ”, אז אמרתי “מכנסיי השמש” במקומ “משקפי שמש
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חחחחחחחחחח!
שמעתי סיפור על משהיא שעברה לישראל, וצרכה מלכודות עכברים. אבל היא לא ידעה המילים “מלכודת” או “עכבר” בעברית. עז היא שאלה עזרה מאחד מהעובדים בחנות, איש ערבי. הוא עזר לה, אבל כשהוא הגד לה על המילה “עכבר,” היא חשבה שזה המובן של “אלהו אחבר,” והיא שאלה עם זה אמת. העובד צחק כך בקול רם שכל החנות בהה בם.
Also, my boyfriend is trying to translate the “One does not simply” meme into Hebrew. So far it’s been interesting…
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Whoops, sorry, I didn’t see this until you posted your comment below!
Zeh hayah matzchik! Ani lo yecholah lichtov be’ivrit be’machshev ha’zeh, az ani kotevet be’anglit, slichah.
Hayom dibarti(?) be’ivrit im ha’ima shel chaver sheli. Hi havinah oti! Zeh progress! (Ain ba’milon ivrit sheli “progress.”)
Mah shlomech?
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SFTDP: *ba’machshev ha’zeh, whoops (not that that was the only mistake in there).
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זה טוב מאד! ו”progress” בעברית זה “התקדמות.” (תודה, גוגל תרגום.)
על שלומתי…אני טובה, אבל קצת המום מאוניברסיטה. אני עושה אנימציית טיפוגרפיה קינטית. זה מהנה, אבל יש יותר מדי תאריכי יעד!
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Drat, did I kill the thread?
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لا اتكلم اللغة الاسبانية جيداً . درستها ستة أشهر فقط ، طبعاً ما بحكيها بالطلاقة. بس الأسوأ شيء هي الارتباك في راسي . دائماً في صفي انسى المفردات والقواعد الاسبانية واتذكر بس مفردات وقواعد عربية . أعرف أن أتكلم اللغة شوي متكسر ، ولكن في محاضرتي الاسبانية أتذكر أي شيء صغيرة درست في اللغة عربية. إستخدم حروف الجر عربية عوضاً عن حروف الجر اسبانية ،واحكي عبارات عربية مثل “يعني ” بدون فكر . هذه مشكلة كبيرة . أو لا . ما بعرف .
*cringes at horrific grammar mistakes and mixing of 3amiya and fusha*
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